My 2 cents !

[Gary Steuer]

Seems most of us have extra change in our pockets at some time or another and we need t share with others. Whatever it is, feel free to bring it up if you want to share it !

I'll start by saying that it is a shame we have some lame people who only want to make themselves heard and don't really care about our system at all. We all know who they are and the only thing I have to say is I feel sorry for their small minds and it is a good thing that others know them and don't really care what they say because whatever it is it isn't the truth !!

There, I feel better already !!

[jay]

Hey Gary,
I always wondered if Ark Wong cared how bad these "lame students" were back then. I recently saw a DVD of a student at Daly street performing forms incredibly bad...... and you can see Ark Wong in the background. How could he watch such bad performances? And with him being as incredible as he was, why so few of his students excelled at this style? If they don't care now I guess they didn't care back then. So why would someone stick around if they didn't care? Just thought I get your take on this on the forum. Inquiring minds want to know....
Jay

[Gary Steuer]

Hi Jay,
To understand this you have to understand the Asian way of thinking which is against what we were brought up with. I see this daily ! As far as kung fu training goes it's like this. The teacher will show you a couple of moves. They will not do the whole form for you . they will show you a couple of moves and then watch you do it. They will do it again ,and then watch you do it again and they will make corrections if necessary. They will do the moves again , and then watch you again, and agin will make corrections if necessary. They will watch you again and if your manner and attitude is not right they will tell you " Looks good !" The rest is up to you. As far as GM Wong was concerned there were different types of students. The serious who really wanted to learn for their own well being. Those that wanted to learn only to show off to others . Those that didn't have the time to learn with a group and were serious, and those like Shewmaker who were a little unbalanced and lived in a fantasy world and paid the rent for the rest of us to learn correctly !
But seriously, I think GM Wong got to the age where some things weren't as important as they used to be and he didn't take it as serious as he once did. He was truly a Great teacher ! The moving to a new location outside of Chinatown at his age probably didn't help.
The students who were serious about their training always found him available for instruction no matter where he taught !

[braz24]

Hi Gary,

I've been lurking on the other sites trying to understand this feud or dissention within the 5F system...I was curious though..at what age (ball park) do you think Ark got to the point where bad students weren't corrected and allowed to learn the style incorrectly? I know figuring out when that happened would be hard to put your finger on but it would be interesting to know.

I know for my part, when I used to teach in other styles that I would correct a student as many times as it took for thatstudent to get a technique or form right. More times than not, you could tell that the students in question just didn't do any practicing of the style outside of class...no homework so to speak. In any case, I still made the correction anyway.

I also realize that I'm no where close to Ark in age too...

Just curious.

Jeff

[mic]

Maybe it was not a question of age of Ark Wong but attitude of the student(s)?

[Gary Steuer]

Exactly. The difference being students whose interest was in the classroom only and wanting to learn only to show off. GM Wong had his office area facing the workout area and he could watch students at all times. He made mental notes as to who was training or who was sitting down talking or reading a comic book, etc..... Those who were trying to remember moves and going through the motions were always given instruction. Those that took part only when they had to and didn't practice at all and couldn't remember the movements were told to follow the class and their individual instruction stopped... As a teacher you see this all the time. Those that want to learn are like sponges and they absorb everything ! Some people on these other forums are good examples, they want the recognition but have yet to offer anything positive to help anyone in their training. Maybe because their own training was lacking from the start. If you have done something wrong for a long period of time it doesn't become right because of age.

[Gary Steuer]

Maybe I could explain a little about the so called feud.. these people who are now Masters and Grand Masters were merely students at one time and they were not very good both in ability and attitude. They took advantage of GM Wong's passing and thought there would be no one around to discredit them. They started teaching the style as they practiced it, wrong ! This is visible when you watch them move. I myself am embarressed when I watch them. They are horrible !! GM Wong told me a long time ago that when someone wasn't sure about what they were doing when doing a form from any style, they would speed up their movement. They move so fast that the technique would never be applicable . When people do a form watch for the correct speed. when they do it incorrectly they will also be looking at their feet instead of the whole area around them. The speed throws off their balance and their timing. If they were working with a weapon chances are they drop it ..
Anyway, these people who are taking titles and credit are merely trying to make a living out of what they don't know. These people are very angry because others have shown up who know that they are only faking it and they have become defensive........ Can't blame them, they got caught !!

[braz24]

Thanks for that explanation, Gary. Pretty enlightening.

It reminds me of when Ed Parker died...everyone and their brothers thought that they were the new leader and grandmaster of American Kenpo...it was and I think still is a big mess. Lots of people fighting for the percieved "throne" of the style.

While we're on the subject...about 6 years or so ago I met a guy who was taking tae kwon do in a small town south of St. Louis. He was so proud of the school (which is a good thing!) and mentioned that the head of the small dojang was also the "grandmaster" of tae kwon do. I said,"Oh really! How old is he?" My friend say his instructor and grandmaster was age 33! Tae kwon is sooooo common in America and to have a 33 y/o grandmaster was simply ludicrous. BTW, tae kwon do is a very honorable style...no disrepect intended...I studied tae kwon do when I was 17 as it is.

I thought the "definition" of grandmaster in many systems was the senior repected and acknowledged practioner of a style in a country and/or continent. For instance, Doc Fai Wong is the grandmaster for choy li fut in the United States.

Is that what everyone else has heard?...about the "definition" of grandmaster.

Jeff

[Gary Steuer]

You are right Jeff. But, I guess the rest of us have to get in line behind The First Caucasion Grand Master Shoemaker..........

[pacificnw]

Gary

When I first started learning Five Family style I had training in class with you and individuel training with Jay . Jay was relentless and never let a mistake go by but in class I was instructed to follow along with the forms when i got lost and mimic the motions .the combination of the two made me , I feel a little more comfortable with the forms and made up for the fact that I was in my 30s and not as coordinated as some . also the look over the horizon at more advanced forms and participating made my goals more managable .

Robert

[Gary Steuer]

You did well Robert !

[Gary Steuer]

Jeff, many years ago , my wife at the time worked for Ed Parker as his private secretary. she also managed the business at the Dojo in West Los Angeles. I got to know Ed and lots of his students at that time.. They loved to come over to our school in West L.A. and free spar with us to get ready for their tournaments. Did you know Ron Wilstein ?

[braz24]

Hi Gary,

No, I'm afraid I don't know Ron Wilstein....I was in Chinese kenpo for well over a decade. I've never studied American Kenpo at all. Sorry.

Jeff

[bridgeport]

Watch the Movie, "farewell my concubine" the first part says it all about the world of the old chinese. We can hardly imagine from our coddled western perspectice of instant coffee and fast food
to what that life was like... it was expected that talent would succeed and the lesser would be cast off without mercy. To rise to the top you had to be able to PROVE your ability otherwise you would simply be laughed out of the hall... This is the world from which Ark Yuey Wong was sprung from.. Remember the photos of the guys sparring and doing forms in "pirate" garb from
his school in the old days... and that was the U.S. in the old days.
Most modern men would fall over and die if they even had to go back in time here and live and act as real men had to even in our country. Sifu Gary is so right about this... listen to him well...
Ark wong was not going to become something he was not
or babysit for those who had no talent to learn... hey like sifu said
those people pay the rent for those who have talent to learn.
and today to proclaim themselves as masters or grand masters
turns my stomach silly little fools who seek recognition for what... because they were "there"... Listen well.... wrong practice in, wrong practice out. Just my .02 cents

[jay]

Well said bridgeport! If the meaning of kung fu means hard work, then those "silly little fools" didn't practice good kung fu. It's sad that they passed their bad kung fu to their students.