Forms and Applications

[jingwah]

Hi Everyone

Gary, check me if I am wrong...

The technique for attaching the forms is really simple. You may have to think a minute, but it is worth it.

What you do is you begin the next form exactly where the last actual move of the previous form ends. You cut out the firnal salute and sometimes the move before it. Find the last move in the form that leaves you in position to start with the first move of the next form. If you notice, the salute ends exactly where the small cross begins. In the small cross you end after the windmills (move 45). you complete the two palm strikes and you are in position for move one of the butterfly.

[Gary Steuer]

That's right Jim.... hopefully we'll be able to make this clearer when I am in L.A. next week and we can get some of this on camera...... If anybody has any questions on any type of movement ask so we can get answers to you..... Check with Jim & Jay, we're going to try to put together a copy of the first 5 forms along with the salute and applications and lots of chin na techniques...

[jay]

Hi Gary,
Sunday is approaching fast and we all can't wait to see you. A question for you.... Many of the forms I have learned I did not learn a count, so how do you know what is correct? For example, move 5 in the salute has more than one movement yet it is one count. Yet that one count has more than one application for kicks and punches, which theretically could be more than one count. Am I making sense? What is your take on this. I know that I do not need a count because I see the other side but out of curiosity sake......

[Gary Steuer]

The counting is for the purpose of 1- Keeping everyone together for a group, 2- To keep sequences in your mind for application, 3- To learn not to anticipate movement before necessary. 4- So that a form can be broken down for learning in segments............etc...

[jay]

My question, in better words, would be how do I determine if a count is based on one movement or a few, as in #5 of the Salute. #5 has 4 movements which each could be one count. I hope I am being clear in my question. Thanks.

[Gary Steuer]

I understand.... Even though there is one count for a combination of movements each movement can be seperated from that combination for use. There are many forms which use similar movements for certain applications but maybe there is a slight difference from one form to another in the movement, this is the reason. The more forms you learn the more there will be similar applications with a slight difference.........

[jay]

Let me rephrase again. Why is move #5 in the Salute #5 and not #'s 5, 6, 7, & 8, since there are 4 different applications. I have always been curious about that.

[Gary Steuer]

Because they make up a natural sequence of movement and it flows well to balance the body

[mic]

Question to all:
What do you use to help you remember forms? Besides the daily going over forms, watching videos, visualizing, etc. do you write notes or have other suggestions? Think of the long distance learners who cannot just turn to a teacher or training partner to ask.
Thank you, all.

[nggakuen]

Just my 2 cents. Mic, I think you meant the original sequences of the forms, right? If someone has been practicing the same forms everyday for more than 7 years (average years to complete a system with more than 15 forms in general), I don’t see why he/she would forgot the sequences unless the memory is deteriorating for some reasons. The forms we usually forgot are the ones we don’t do often, most likely just the sequences but not individual movements. Write them down, record them in sound, take a video, teach them to someone are all good ways to preserve them. In regards to distance learners, with today’s technology, live video learning through internet just around the corner. Even if Sifus’ don’t have hi-tech knowledge; most likely couple of his students do. In some case, video through cellphone is also available now. The key is you are willing to learn and Sifu or someone is willing to share

[mark]

mic said:

Question to all:
What do you use to help you remember forms? Besides the daily going over forms, watching videos, visualizing, etc. do you write notes or have other suggestions? Think of the long distance learners who cannot just turn to a teacher or training partner to ask.
Thank you, all.

Hi Michele,
Yeah, It's helped me in the past to take notes. Since I'm a visual person however, I prefer seeing the moves over and over until I got it down. Then it's just a matter of repetition. If your learning a new form, I'd highly recommend Green Dragon Studio's 1,000 Reps. Program. It's available free at their website (www.greendragonkungfu.com). I hope that helps a little.

Mark

[mic]

OK, busted I am! ;-\
No, I haven't practiced daily and my self-discipline could seriously improve. I do better in a group when it comes to training. At the same time a group can and has been my crutch. It has happened that I go through a form and get stuck, try a few things that I feel are not the moves that come next and give up out of frustration. Yes, videos and GM Ark Wong on Youtube help tremendously, nowadays.

[mic]

Thanks Mark, I'll try!

[Gary Steuer]

Someone mentioned to me that they watched someone do a form and they were really impressed by how fast the person was moving...........

This is one of the big mistakes people make when they do their forms. They hide lack of technique with speed. Most of the forms, regardless of style, that I've watched seemed to be done at a very unrealistic speed . This goes back to watching a person doing their form. When you are watching them move you should be able to create the sides that have made them do their movement. You should be able to see the technique involved. Do not associate speed with ability !

[mic]

Just my personal opinion: It is when performing forms with more speed that we realize if we have solid stances and balance. Of course, we should still know what is happening on our own side and the sides of invisible opponents! :-)